Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Digital Kindness podcast. I'm your host Andrew Marcinic and I am so glad you are here.
Today we welcome Carl Hooker to the pod. Carl, welcome.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Thank you Andy for having me excited to be on here.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: I'm excited to have you here. This is our season one. This is our finale episode. So we are going out one of the biggest voices in the industry in edtech.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Not that kind of voice.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Not that kind of voice. Not that kind of voice. Yeah, we'll save that for my next podcast. So I just want to kind of introduce Carl because a lot of you out there listening probably have heard about Carl Hooker, have seen him speak. Carl has spent the last 25 years in education as a teacher administrator focused on thoughtful integration of technology. He consults for multiple districts across the country and is a frequent speaker at state and national events. He is an eight time author. I'm just going to say that again. He is an eight time author. He is our Lou Gehrig of EdTech.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Wait, that. That didn't end well for Lou.
[00:01:13] Speaker B: So don't let me say maybe.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Cal Ripken. I'm the Cal Ripken.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: Cal Ripken.
[00:01:18] Speaker A: All right, there you go. Sorry. Worry off the rails man.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: I did not have Lou Gehrig jokes on my bingo card today. Carl works with multiple edtech companies and is a national faculty amerit Future Ready Schools. He's also the co founder of K12Leaders.com, a social community built by educators for educators. And if there's one thing you take from this podcast is Definitely check out k12leaders.com it is a great space if you are frustrated with all the noise in the other socials. K12 leaders is a great space to find your your nook, find your niche of of educators like you talking about all the kind of issues in education. So big plug for k12leaders.com. It's an awesome site. His book Learning Evolution discusses the changes that education will need to make to survive in an AI enhanced world.
His latest book, Zengage dives into the balance of technology, cell phones, anxiety and digital well being. Carl is also the co host of my favorite podcast and I was on their podcast last year, the undisrupted podcast with Carl and Adam File. We had Adam on I think episode three this year. So it is great to have you here Carl. I'm sure I could go with your bio. I've been following you since my, you know, early days in, in the education field and I always appreciate your work and I am glad you're here today.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: And I met you at a bar in Philly. I just remembered that I was trying to think of the first time I met you in person because, like, I think we connected online several times. But. Yeah.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:47] Speaker A: And I think you're also brave not to have. Actually not so brave not to have Adam and I on at the same time because that would be, that could be disastrous. I don't think we've ever been on, on a show as, as, as guests. We've been hosts, of course, but probably wise.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Well, even though this is a season finale of my season one, season two is coming up, so I think we're gonna make that happen. I think we're gonna make that happen. I will. We'll get you guys on the, on the, on the ballot for, for season.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Two, it's when you start doing the shenanigans, like the hot wings challenges. That's when, that's when you know you've jumped the shark. That's what we like season four, we decided to do. Let's, let's do. Let's eat hot wings while we do a podcast with like super height Spicy. That was dumb. We also recreated the Ghosts of Christmas Pass, but we use it with ed tech tools and we had to act, put on costumes. Yeah. Just try to avoid some of the big mistakes that we've made. That's all I'd say. And then you'll be the most successful podcast in education starring Andy.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: I love it. I love it. I will definitely do that. And you know, Philly, Philly stopped the wing bowl, but maybe I'll bring it back in season two.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: We'll see. Let's go.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: What happens. So speaking of Philly, Carl, right out of the gate, you and I are both, we connected primarily around ed tech, but I think our, our connection burgeoned even further when we found out that we were both die hard Philadelphia Eagles fans. So right at Go Birds. Yes. Right out of the gate is Jalen hurts, a top 11 Philly athlete.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: You know, we must follow the same stuff. Our algorithms are the same because I got that like yesterday I got the 10, you know, Philly athletes of all time. Or right now. I think, I would say right now for sure. I think all time. It would be hard to put them in the top 10 or top 11 even. But I would say top. Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think of like who's out there that would be better. I mean, obviously, you know, Saquon just in my, my heart of hearts, I'm still a Big Saquon fan. And of course, Bryce with the Phillies and. And Embiid is, you know, whenever he's healthy.
So I would say for sure I'd have him right around the middle. I mean, maybe not number one, but he's definitely. I might even be top five. I would say. You. You. Where do you have him?
[00:04:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm kind of with you there because he's. He. Did you know he won the super bowl last year? He was in the super bowl two years.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Let's say that again. By the way, the reigning super bowl champion, Jalen Hurts. Yes, there we go.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: The reigning super bowl champion, Philadelphia, reigning two time super bowl champion, Philadelphia Eagles. A sentence I never thought I would say in my entire life.
[00:05:05] Speaker A: I know, right? It's amazing. It's. I'm pinching myself like we're in an alternate universe. I live in, by the way. I live in Texas. Y' all know there's a team in Texas that loves to give me grief all the time. And it's been so nice to not even have to say a word. I just wear the hat, I put on the jersey, and I walk off because it's been since my. It was before floppy disks. Let's just say it was the last time the Cowboys were even. Even sniffed the Super Bowl. Sorry. Okay, let's move on. That's not being digitally kind, by the way. I just realized that.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: That is not digitally kind. But it's okay. It's okay if in the context of the Cowboys, you can. You can kind of.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Okay, good. That's. You find that on the back page of your book is like, there's this asterisk that says, except for Cowboys fans.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. But no, if you would ask 12 year old Andy, you know, you'd be like, hey, someday you're gonna have a podcast and you're gonna utter the sentence, you know, two time super bowl champion Philadelphia Eagles. He would have laughed at you and be like, that's funny. I'm gonna play for baseball. Phillies. What are you talking about?
[00:05:59] Speaker A: And what's a podcast?
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah, what's a podcast? But no, I think. I think Jalen is right there. I mean, I think he is. He is. You know, he still. He's still like, is he 25, 26? He still has. Yeah, he's a kid. He's got so much he had to do and all he's done since he showed up and. And taken over for, you know, the. The great Carson Wentz. He is just.
Again, I know. I never thought I name. I never you know, he was good for a minute.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: He was good.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: He was. He got us there. He got us there to, you know, and he couldn't finish it. I mean, we had to have Nick come in and finish it, but, I mean, he got us there. But. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think Jalen has so much more room to grow and I'm, I think I'm more excited now that the pressure of, you know, winning a Super bowl, getting to a Super bowl and, you know, going through that tumultuous seven game collapse at the end of the season, it's just like, you know, I, I think, I think the kid's got so much potential and I think he's going to be. I think when we're doing, I don't know, season 15 of the Digital Kindness podcast, we'll be reflecting on the great number one quarterback of all time, Jalen Hurts. That. That's my prediction.
I'm making a hot take right now.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: So mark the tape. June 9, Juneteenth, 2025.
Yes.
[00:07:23] Speaker B: And I'm saying that right from the land of Tom Brady.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: So happy to also. Also brazen.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm. Yeah, I'm going. I'm going all in. So. All right, so I'm sure we could talk about Jalen Hurts and the upcoming season for the Philadelphia Eagles, reigning Super bowl champions, who beat the Kansas City Chiefs, who didn't score, I don't think in the first quarter. Checks, but checks and check. Yeah, but, but I digress. We have a lot to talk about with.
This is a. I always feel like this is such a big time in the edtech world. This is kind of the, you know, the kind of that, that sweet spot of, you know, everyone's finishing up school, you have some big conferences on the horizon. ISTE Live is. Is coming up. ISTE Live plus ascd exclamation point is yeah, is coming up in San Antonio. We're going to get to that and talk about what you'll be sharing there. But I just want to kind of take jump in our DeLorean for a little bit, Carl. And you know, when I first kind of came into the edtech space, I was rolling out a large scale iPad one to one up here in Burlington, Massachusetts. Similarly, you were in that kind of similar space rolling out a large scale, a huge large scale iPad initiative down in Texas. You know, we have a lot of overlap in our work. We both implemented these programs. You know, one of the reasons I started writing my most recent book was, you know, I did a Lot of reflecting on those implementations. And I actually went back and read one of my early books, my first book that I ever wrote. It's called the one to one Roadmap. Setting the Course for Setting the Course for Innovation and Education.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Not a rememberable title there. You had a hard time getting it out.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: It was the longest title ever. I'm like, can't we just make this a hashtag?
[00:09:08] Speaker A: What do you want to make this a hashtag? Stop. Yeah.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: One to one Roadmap. Stop. Yeah. Figure it out. Open the book. But, you know, thinking about where we've come from and thinking about the next generation of students and educators we're going to be supporting, reflecting on that work. Work. You know, where did we come up short? And what are some of the learnings from. From that time and to where we are now?
[00:09:29] Speaker A: It's. I mean, is it. Sit, Sit around the fire, kids. We're going to tell you a story of way things used to be back in the olden days.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: I know.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Speaking of Nick Foles, there's a tie in here. So when I went to Westlake High School, Nick was just graduating high school. We started the one to one program two years after Nick Foles graduated Westlake High School. Just let y' all know, like, that's how far go back it goes. And that was back when they had those big fat charging cords on. The camera just had just come out. In fact, if you Google search. A dark day in Westlake history. I actually took video of our first rollout where we shorted the freshmen by like 300. Somehow someone forgot to carry the one or something. And all these freshmen show up to get their iPads. And the assistant principal is like, I'm sorry, but we do not have enough. And everyone starts moaning and hissing and throwing stuff. And I, of course, take out my phone because I'm like, we got to record this, right? Yeah. I mean, there was so many. I don't know. And it's funny because, you know, as we're going through the AI version of what. What this was for us way back then, we definitely led. We led with the tools first.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: Right?
[00:10:24] Speaker A: And I think we're seeing that again with AI And I think that's just because it's like, okay, we need to figure out ways. And this is true. And, you know, I've been dusting off my Samur catalog lately, or model or whatever you want to call it, because I feel like we almost have to relook at it through the lens of AI. But with. And that was that was the thing that guided me and you know, a lot of initiatives out there was the SAMR model. And it was just getting past the substitution phase and, and then realizing that maybe substitution wasn't so bad after all, but having that as a stepping stone or, or as a way to use technology. So for me, I think where I, I think where I came up short was I focused so much on the tools because I was just like, get it out there and get it used. Not thinking not to finish that phrase instead of saying get it used. Getting it used effectively and efficiently and Right, actually to further teaching and learning. Because I saw a ton of what I call gratuitous tech where it was like, we're going to use tech for tech's sake and cutesy little Facebook fake book pages or whatever. I was like, this isn't really moving the needle for technology. So I worry a little bit about that with AI, I get shined by the glitz of that too. So I'm kind of seeing it like, let's make a song. We're going to make a song about this or whatever. And it's fun, but we got to move past that too at some point.
[00:11:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And I like that point about the gratuitous text. That is, that is something I felt very connected to as well, where I just felt like I was just, I was putting the gateway drug in all the kids hands and I'm just like, I'm like, here you go, it'll take you places. But the thing is, I mean, I found so much and I know you have the same experience, you know, in my own growing in, in that time when I was working, I was a teacher first, much like yourself. And then I kind of came into the technology space and where I kind of grew with that was leveraging technology in a really effective way through blogging, putting my voice out there, kind of jumping in the deep end before a lot of other folks came on board to that. And I feel like that benefited me so well. And I wanted my students to have that same experience. I wanted them to be able to, you know, not just like, hey, we're all going to take a test and we're all, we all have to learn this one singular way. I felt like, you know, technology was giving us the opportunity to learn in such an array of ways and allow students to, you know, produce their voice in so many different directions. And, you know, and I think there was that, that kind of one kind of sweet spot of like that was all happening. And then, you know, I think One of the reasons I wrote Teaching Digital Kindness was that all kind of, it was like the, I say this in the book where it's like it was the alternate universe in, in Back to the Future 2 where Biff Biff is. Oh yeah, Biff is president. Where Biff is, you know, running everything. And it's kind of where we find ourselves now. And so it's interesting though. But no, but I appreciate that because I, I also was kind of pushing tech as much as possible because it was, I, I, I just felt like there was so much potential for students to learn in so many different ways. Right. And, and I think, I think that's why we do what we do because we're not just we, we're, we're not ones to, I mean, I, I went to school and I had to have this like rope memorization. And it was like the notes are on the board, the teacher's talking, you're writing it down, then you take a test, rinse, repeat, next day. And school, school was so boring. And I'm like, there's gotta be a better way. And when technology came about and I, the iPad specifically, I think it really showed so many different ways in which you could do amazing things.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think I knew I, where I discovered where I felt like I missed the boat. I mean, again, getting the tools out there, I figured it was worth the risk to say like, okay, they may get into some mischief and there may be kids playing games in the back of class. And there was, and a lot of that. And it was before, like, this is the wild west, you know, this is like before the big mdm, you know, jam and all those things weren't really, I mean, they were just getting started. So I can't even tell you how many things were, were bad. But at one point, I think in 2014, so we're about three years into the program, I decided to dress up like a high school student and go to Westlake High School as a student and just sit through sophomore level classes.
And I was like, this is, and it was interesting to see my assumption going in was that the younger teachers were going to be using it and it's going to be engaging and the older teachers are going to be like, ah, put it away. And it actually turned out it was not that it was really like the experienced teachers that thought, okay, there's a useful part of this. I'm gonna use it as a quizzing structure or I'm gonna use near pod to have some information or whatever. And then there was a teacher that was like a brand new teacher that was like standing deliver at the board and calling on the same two kids in class. And I sat there on my device, I was like, I found myself drifting into like, oh, I'm gonna play.
I might play a game or read a comic book or something online. Cause I was just bored with that, you know, which, by the way, you know, comic books is what it was beforehand. It's just.
We just had different ways of disengaging ourselves. But now it's so easy to grab that access.
Yeah, yeah. So that's when I was like, okay, we gotta rethink this, because we're really not getting into the deep level of what it can do. There's still the potential for it, but, you know, and I think that's just part of it. And that's part of the SAMR model and the implementation. What do they call it, the innovation curve. Like, there's the trailblazers and there's the laggards and there's everybody in between. So, yeah, lessons learned.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Yeah, no, lessons learned. And I think, you know, I look back on it and I'm.
I think you and I both can say we're. I think we're proud of the work we did and like, you know, that we were kind of, you know, setting the course for what we are doing now because we're in this new space of AI and you know, we're going to get to AI in a little bit. We'll talk about that. But I mean, you know, here we are again, where we have this kind of groundbreaking technology that's in its infancy, and it's going to change the way we're all doing things going forward. And it's going to a little bit disrupt, you know, our entire educational space. But before we get to AI, I want to talk about kind of again, traveling up in our time machine here in our DeLorean. You know, you and I have talked about this, and I think we're on the same page around these ideas, these cell phone bans popping up in schools around America. I found out they're actually popping up in, you know, abroad too, and European countries is happening. They're actually looking to us in this space. But I want to hear your thoughts on what schools are missing when they're implementing these cell phone bans. Because I think this is where we. I think we agree a lot on this idea of, yeah, it's easy to ban something. It's easy to say as a, As a politician out there. It's like, hey, we're banning. We're banning cell phones in schools. I want to hear from you. What are. What are schools missing?
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, yeah, when you. Let's look at. Let's go back further back in the DeLorean and look at history. Whenever we ban something as a society, how has that worked out for us? And there are times, don't get me wrong, where we have regulations around. You know, there's certain things that we don't have kids to have access to, obviously. And that's. That's not what this is about.
I understand the reasons why teachers or educators or leaders, why 72% of teachers are in favor of it and 81% of parents, or I think it might be those numbers might be reversed. But the idea is it's an easy button, right? Let's get rid of it. And you just said in that last segment, we just talked about the disruption of technology and why it's important to still kind of trudge through it because we're preparing kids for the future. Well, if you ban it and block it, then that means that we're assuming that the parents are going to take care of it. And you and I both know, we're both parents, but we also work with lots of parents. We know that they're. That's widely different.
So why would we ban it? Ban a tool that they use for communication? When we teach other types of communication, like writing letters, like, we teach them how to listen to podcasts, we teach them how to read books, I mean, there's all sorts of communication, and it comes in and out of the phones.
But by banning it, you know, we're basically saying that's not going to be part of it because we feel like it's too distracting. And we don't want to take the time to teach the kids how to not be distracted, because then they become adults that are extremely distracted, which aren't really helpful for us either. So I'm against them. And I know I'm swimming against the stream here. Again, like I said, based on the numbers and based on the fact that even the state of Texas we just passed, I think it was a instructional minute span where it's like, you can't have it out during instructional minutes. But again, like you just said, I mean, I could stand up there and say it's banned. And then, like, what does it actually look like? Boots on the ground? Because teachers are the ones that are actually going to be enforcing this stuff. And I mean, sure, it's good to have that behind you. If you need it. But I mean, also, when are we going to teach them how to use it? I don't know. So I'm obviously not on the side of banning them, but I also understand that there are times we need to put them away, and I think that's what we need to be teaching them, not the. We're going to tell you not to have it, and we're not going to tell you why.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Right. You make so many good points there, Carl. And I think where I, I kind of come around with the. The analogy is, you know, we've spent a lot of money in schools around health and wellness, and I'm talking about nutrition and teaching kids. We're not just banning sugary drinks. Like, we're not the state of New York. We're not. We're not banning sugary drinks. We're not banning Fruit Loops. We're not banning, you know, sugary breakfast cereals or anything like that. Fast food. We're not banning that. You know, but we're also teaching kids how to make good choices in a very challenging space. When you go to the grocery store and you see all these, you know, labels and bright colors, and it's like, it's kind of the same thing. And we're spending money to teach kids how to do that. We spent money on. Even, like, you talk about the tobacco campaigns and the drug campaigns when we were in school. Dare, you know, I dare. I always, I always said, like, I know I come into some family environments where whether it's Christmas or, you know, whatever, and I see kids, like, sitting around on a device, right? You see all these kids just sitting around device and like, oh, hey, Uncle Andy, how you doing? Yeah, and then they're back into it. But, like, if all those kids were smoking cigarettes when we came into the room, like, what would we do? Would we just be like, oh, hey, you know, it's like, hey, you know what? Hey, you know, hey, cuz, like, why is your. Why is my nephew. Why'd my nephew have a pack of Marble Reds rolled in his sleeve? You know, and it's like. And I think it's kind of the same thing, but, like, you know, we don't, don't.
We don't correlate it. Because it's not a. It's kind of this invisible thing that's happening, right? It's, It's. It's mental health that's. It's being affected in our kids. And it's like, where. I think that's where we agree in this Idea like, yeah, like, I don't want my kids having endless access to just these, you know, rabbit holes of like YouTube and just unguided. I want them to be able to understand how to use the technology well. But, like, we're missing that opportunity right now in our space to really do that well.
[00:20:23] Speaker A: And you just hit on another point that I think that that's being missed in all of this and that is blanket bands and you're generalizing everything on a phone when we know that there's lots of different things you're doing on the phone. That, yes, the short form, short, short reels, all that stuff is definitely. It's addictive. It's meant. I mean, they come out and said it. It's the reason why you have it, right? It's. They want you to stay on that. That at certain times. That's the part that's the tricky part. And that's the part that we got to watch out and monitor and take advantage of. But at the same time, if that kid that you come to at Christmas is, you know, working on something or, you know, I have. My daughter uses. One of my daughters use a. It's Procreate on the iPad. So they love to just draw and do digital art and sometimes they'll doodle with that. One of my daughters is actually learning how to do crocheting. So she has her device set up where she can see the pattern on her phone. And I don't understand it, but there's a granny squares or something. She called it something, but she's basically looking at some boxes and then at the same time with her hands doing this. And I'm like, yeah, that's, you know, that's one thing now, the one thing I will say, and I've been writing about it in this new book, but it's it that I'm curious to hear your take on. And I call it the. The emotional support AirPods. Like, you know, the one AirPod that every kid carries with them all the time. What are your. What are your thoughts on that? Because it's. I'm writing about it now and I'm like. And I've been asking my kids and other kids and just like, why. Help me understand. Why do you always have that one.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Thing in your ear that's a. Yeah. I mean, it almost kind of takes me back to fidget spinners because like, I.
Tamagotchi.
[00:21:43] Speaker A: Tamagotchi.
Yeah.
[00:21:45] Speaker B: It's like, okay, I get it. Like, is it a comfort thing? Is it, you know, and so like, you know, it's funny because I was actually just talking to my brother the other day. I have a extra set of the old, old because of the, the port, the charging ports change, AirPods Max. And I was like, hey, would my nephew, who's now going to be eight years old, you know, I was like, would he want those? And he's like, oh, yeah, I think, I think so. I think he's kind of getting into that. But yeah, you know, it's like, is that something that, like, I don't know, is it. Is it a sneaky way? Is it. I'm not really sure where I stand on that because I, you know, I see adults doing it as well. Like, I see. I see adults. Like, I mean, you go to any airport gate and everyone is walking around talking to themselves. And it's like, I thought we got rid of this with the whole Bluetooth clips in our ears, but then, you know, AirPods came in and, and it's interesting because you look at where Apple's roadmap is with AirPods, and I think they want us wearing these things all the time for sure. And, and they blanket it, like, blanketed it, like Apple typically does. It's like, we're also helping, you know, people who have hard of hearing. Like, like, that's great. That's fantastic. But, like, we don't need to be wearing AirPods and connected in this space, you know, and it's. I, if I think about it in this, like, like, I have a. I have a vision Pro. I was an early adopter of that.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Yes, you were.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Ridiculous, expensive technology that is. Has a, has some dust on my desk right here to my right. But it's like, I knew it.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: It's like, tell me, tell me in six months if you' Marcinic. And I was like, I never heard of. Yes. For the first month I got all these images and cool things, and now.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I actually, we actually had a side chat with myself, Bellow, and, and Phil Hintz. We're all just like, talking about. I'm like, yeah, it's really cool. Like, I can see cool stuff. And it then it was like, you know, there's now crickets and there's. Just on that chat, it's like so far down my list, I can't even find it. But I think it's like this idea of, like, we're kind of going towards this space where our whole entire, like, periphery is being ensconced in technology.
They already got our wrists. In my mind, the data I'm tracking every day on my wrist is absurd. And then, you know, we have the AirPods, we have the phones, and we have the meta glasses. You know, they're just encapsulating us in this technology and it'll be interesting to see where that goes in five years.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: Isn't it interesting too, as you're saying that, like, I immediately start getting a negative feeling, right? Like, I'm like, God, they're making us do this, or tracking. But I started thinking like, like you just said with the, with the AirPods and the, the people that are hard of hearing and the tracking and the health tracking. There's so much positive too. But it's funny how the narrative, probably main scale, maybe it's just what we follow in our algorithms and everything else is that we tend to drift to negative because. And I'm the same way, by the way. I'm not saying, I mean, I have to. I catch myself doing it when I'm working, especially now with Gen Alpha kids and trying to figure out what drip Ohio. Yeet, bro. Low key Sus Cringe is telling me or whatever. Like, did you speak English? Or are you like Pauly Shore back in the day? But I, it's, it's. So I find myself drifting into that. But then at the same time I'm like, all right, let me, let me try to have more understanding. So, like with the AirPod thing, for example, I've asked kids, like, just tell me what your. What's the thought? And they're like, well, I like to have. Sometimes it's, it's comfort. Like you mentioned that anxiety is definitely, you know, research has been out in the last few years, especially post Covid. There's a lot of increased anxiety, which is again, part of the impetus for this new book I'm writing. And it's. And I think some of it is that's a, that's a way for them to transition into a new. Like, I'm going from leaving my car and going into this big dinner thing. I need to have that on. So then we talk, having more of an outward discussion about what does it represent when you have it in. Because that tells me, someone who's visually looking at you, that you're probably not paying attention to me or you're paying only partial attention. Although it's not as bad as, like, having the phone in your face either. So maybe that's a step up. I, you know, and again, there's no real right answer. That's. I just like to the conversation around.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: It no, and I think, I think you make a real, a lot of really good points here too. And I think there's, there's definitely that, like, yeah, let's look at it at the negative aspect. Like, I think that's kind of in our roles, Carl. That's what we do. We're like, we look at the worst case scenario of the technology and what it can lead to. But I also see it from like an equity standpoint, like kids who can't get out of the city or can't get, you know, out of rural areas, but could maybe have an affordable Apple Vision Pro someday that can take them places and engage them in spaces both audibly and visually that can really expand their horizons. And that's where I think why we do what we do is because technology can be that leveler where the kids who have all the opportunities that can go to the Louvre in Paris and can travel to South Africa and have those experiences where a kid may not have those resources, but can also get there and experience that and connect with people in those spaces. That's where I think, you know, once we can make that technology affordable, you know, then it becomes a leveler in, in a lot of different ways when we talk about technology.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: So, yeah, and I will say this too, as someone who's now north of a big number five zero in age that the AirPod. One more quick thing about the AirPods, I now wear them to concerts and it's not so I can listen to music. It helps me, it helps a certain age. All of a sudden you get this ringing in your ear that doesn't go away. I was like, you know what? Yep, I'm going to be that dude at the, at the Rock and Roll the Lincoln park show. But I was listening. I could hear it thanks to the transparency mode. I can still hear the music, but it's not destroying my eardrums at the same time. So my, even my 13 year old's like, dad, it's a little bit loud. You should put on your AirPods.
I'm like.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: I love that the next generation is like, dad, take your technology, please put it on.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Yes, plug in quick. Yeah, quick.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Plug in, dad.
All right, well, I want to talk a little bit about your new book because I'm really excited about this book.
I think it's a really good, I think it's a very, very timely piece and we've talked a little bit about it. I know the general premise of it.
Can you give the audience kind of a preview of the why of writing this and who this is for.
The book is then gauged.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: Sorry, the book is engaged and I'm writing two versions of it, just so you know. So the Zen Gage Teacher Vers is the one that's almost done, and it'll be out at the end of the summer. That's basically, it's. It's an educator's guide to Teaching the Anxious Generation. And in that subtitle, you catch the impetus of why I wrote it, because that book came out the Anxious Generation, and immediately the cell phone. I think you could correlate the sales in that book. And cell phone bans across the country just kept going up at the same time. Because in the book he, Jonathan Haidt, says essentially, you know, the one chapter on education he writes is like, let's get rid of phones and let's make kids go play outside, or something like that was. I mean, there's more to it. But that was pretty much the premise of that one chapter. And I thought, man, if I'm a teacher and I'm reading this and I'm like, I don't really have that option, or what is that really teaching the kids? Or how is that helping them get forward and, you know, move forward in the future? So I took that and said, you know what? Let's make that into a series of things that you can do within the classroom, activities you can do with students that can be tied to curriculum. It can be tied to maybe just the five minutes at the end of the day. Instead of take out your phones and just play on them, we're going to do this with our phones, or we're going to do this with each other and talk to each other about a topic or brain teaser.
So lots of little mini activities that can be kind of squeezed into those minutiaes of time that you'll have sometimes in the classroom. And then also lots of activities that tie to actual curricular content. So using your phone for data tracking and science, or using your phone to identify species, you know, as you're walking around and doing a nature walk. So again, it's not about putting the phone away, it's about showing how to use it in right ways, but then also teaching the kids, like, what does the balance look like? How do. If I put my phone face up, sitting next to me, what is my gut telling me? What is it psychologically doing to me? Because there's research around that that I think is true, and that's. It does. When it's nearby and you're looking at it, it cognitively takes a little bit of a bit away from you, not a lot, but it is enough to distract you unless you can really start to hone yourself in and be mindful of it. So, yeah, a lot of the book is addressing anxieties not just around phones, but just in life in general with kids these days. And then I dive into again, the balance and activities and things to do within it in the classroom. And then being mindful is another part of it and present in the moment. And I just finished up, my second to last chapter was just on focus in general and all the things you can do and how technology can actually help you with this. AI can help you with focus. You know, if I'm, if I'm losing track of what I'm doing, like, AI, give me a list of like five things I need to work on on this one particular book or this one. I gotta clean my room. Give me a list of like the six things I should be doing. So letting tools help us focus and versus distracting our focus, I think is a big part of it too.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah, no, and that's, that's amazing. And I think that was my takeaway when I read, read the Anxious Generation is that there's a, there's a big miss here. And I think you, what you just did is you filled in that blank because you're right, there are teachers. I mean, because I always, everyone always talks about, oh, well, look what the Waldorf School is doing. And they're, they're doing amazing stuff. And I'm like, yeah, do you know what, do you know what the, you know where those kids are going home at night? They're going home to like multimillion dollar houses where they have parents who have the time to engage with them or they hire somebody to engage with them and teach their kids how to use technology appropriately. You know, we don't have that in rural areas and a lot of our schools across the country who, you know, are still struggling to get, you know, really good bandwidth in their, in their schools, let alone have somebody that, that is teaching them how to balance the technology use. And so that's why I think we, we totally agree on that idea of like sweeping bands do nothing for our kids. They just, it's the easy button, like you said, sweeps the problem under the rug. And then the kids go off to college, they go off to their first job, and they don't know how to use these tools effectively. And more often than not, they're gonna have to use these tools in a very professional manner in Schools. I mean, I approve, I approve timecards on my phone. I, I, I answer emails on my phone. I have to take calls sometimes on my phone. And so I see my phone as a work device. And I'll be honest, I'll be the first one to say, like, there are times when I jump into TikTok and I just, I ride the wave and I ride it all the way down till maybe 10 o' clock at night and I'm just.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: Until your legs get numb from sitting on that toilet seat. Right?
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah, this, exactly.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: I better get up. This is too much.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. You know, they say you're only supposed to be on there 10 minutes. And I've definitely blown through that multiple times. And it wasn't because what I ate, it was just because I was, I was in a really good rabbit hole of an algorithm.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: So it wasn't, it wasn't the wagyu steak. Yeah, that's good.
But there's, but that's interesting. You say that too, the rabbit hole part. I bring that up, I mean, I do bring that up in the book. And there's an interesting thing I did as an activity with my own kids. It's a longitudinal study about, about usage of social media, let's say. So we'd like to look every week at what our device usage is in terms of screen time and pickups and all of that. One thing, an activity that's pretty neat that we did with a bunch of kids, a group of students, high school kids, is like, look at, see how much time you spend on social media. Which, by the way, 4.8 hours is the average of a high school teenager on social media every day. I said, now times that by the amount, times that by 365 days.
Figuring out that you're awake for maybe 16 hours of every day and then figure out how many days throughout a year you're actually on social media. And if you did 4.8 hours a day, it comes out to 109 days a year that you're on social media. 109 days of every year of your life is just you on social media. And again, I show them that not to say, get off of it completely because like you just said, there's times when you just go on the rabbit hole. And that's fun and you need that kind of brain break in some ways. So I said, but what if you trade, what if you trim that down to like three hours? Let's say that's still a lot of time, but all of a sudden now it's only 68 days, you know, and it's like, oh. So looking at things longitudinally, like, wow, it's taking up this much time. And then my kids push back and say, well, what if I was, like, working out? I was like, ah, even better. So now you're using the device, you're watching your reels, whatever, but you're also exercising physically, so you're engaging your body when your mind is kind of disengaged. So I think it leads to great discussions. But guess what? None of those happen if we ban it. Right, Andy? It's all.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And I think kids. Kids want. They want strategies to balance the phone, like you just said. They want to know how they can kind of condense that time into, you know, from 4.8 to maybe two hours, you know, per.
Per week. You know, and that's where I think. I think. I think the bands aren't doing these kids any. The bands are doing the kids a disservice because the kids want to know strategies. They want to know how to use these tools effectively. And they see all of us, or I should say the majority of adults using them poorly. And so they just kind of go along with it. And, you know, it really kind of traps us all in this space. But that's. That's the result of what we have with these bands.
[00:33:58] Speaker A: Yeah, the adult. The adult modeling part is another one that I talk about in the book with teachers. But, I mean, I'll say it with parents, too. And, you know, I'll say this quietly because I live with somebody who. Who I said doesn't model it. Well, I won't say who it is. It's not me. I'll just say that. But her. Her pushback to me was like, well, you know, kids aren't allowed to drink alcohol before the age of 21. And I drink in front of them. And I said, yes. And you're modeling what. When you drink, you're not. You're not getting, like, completely obliterated when you drink. You're. You're showing, like, I'm gonna have a glass of wine with dinner, just like you would show them. I'm putting my phone away with dinner. I mean, those are the exact. I mean, it's like you're going back to your earlier analogy about the sugar. It's the same thing. What are we modeling for them? It's not necessarily usage. It's over usage that we're trying to say, like, hey, I'm spending way too much time on this audibly saying it out loud, I'm going to put it down and put it away. And that's. And that's the thing that needs. That's the discussion that needs to happen.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: I agree 100%.
Carl, I want to just kind of shift a little bit, because I know you're doing a lot of work with AI.
I heard in your latest podcast with you and Adam, you have a AI bootcamp coming up this summer. I want to hear about that as well. But as, as school leaders head into the summer, as educators head into summer, what should they be thinking about when it comes to AI in the classroom and what's going to be waiting for them next fall?
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I think we're. This is. This is accelerated a lot faster than the iPads that we, you and I both live through. I think we're. We're way. Which is good in some ways, but in other ways, it also is overwhelming because through that, you're missing lots of different things. You feel like. I feel like if I don't keep track of my AI news every day, that I'm, like, already way behind. So I think just like that, just like we did back in the day with the apps, like, don't. Don't focus on how many you can learn, but instead focus on how deeply you can use the tool. And I think with AI classrooms that I'm working with this summer, most of that content is built around the idea of using it as a creative tool, showing different ways to implement it in parts of the learning process. So I know brainstorming is kind of the big one. Everyone's like, that's the quick. Yeah, we can use it for brainstorming. And that's great. Again, I think that's the first. That's the SAM or S. Right. It's just using it as a brainstorm model. But then the next step is like, now what do we do? What if we. Instead of using it for brainstorming, what if I brainstorm with a. With a colleague or a student? And then we write our. We ask AI to give us an outline, and then we come up together with a joint story or a project that we're working on together. So again, adding the AI part of it with the human creativity, that's really a lot of the work I'm doing is trying to figure out that balance. And in fact, one of the sessions I'm doing at ISTE is called Mind vs. Machine, and it's all about human creativity partnered with artificial intelligence and how that could be a powerful force for good, especially when it comes to learning. But if we, again, take it away or say, you can only use this one tool, then it's somewhat limiting. And I'll be honest, there's still, I mean, seven or eight of the tools I used last year, I don't use this year. So it is changing a lot.
So for me, it's like, I try to make the tools a little more background discussion and then say, okay, but let's really talk about how you could use this to help with evaluation of the learning process, which is not cheatable with AI. So if you, if you just, if you evaluate learning process, you're never going to be able to cheat.
And I think that's important. I think teachers kind of go, well, that's, that's great and all, but how do I have the time to do it? You know? And I'm like, yeah, it's. Yeah, that's part of, I mean, guess what? AI can help you with that, too. It's amazing.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: It is. And I, I think you're, you hit on that, like, this idea of, like, you know, we dealt with that whole, like, well, they're just going to cheat. And it's like, I think it's, it's not so much. And I think I listened to your, I listened to your podcast with Joseph south, my former boss at the usdoe, and this idea of, you know, we're now teaching the next generation of AI innovators and designers, and if we're going to just get completely bogged down in this idea of cheating, we were missing the boat. And I think, like, this, this idea of cheating, being the lead in with the conversation, is something we need to kind of just push to the side. And we need to think about how, as school leaders and as people who work within schools, is that how are we going to redesign the learning process? And I think to your point, the process is the most important part. I mean, it was for the Sixers, and I think it is for, for.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: A Trust the process.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Maybe not the best analogy, but.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: The.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: Same is for AI. And so. And I'm not talking about Allen Iverson either. Yeah, you know, I'm talking about, you know, I think, I mean, I use it almost daily, and I think one of the biggest statistics out there, I don't know the exact number, but I heard this on, on the Verge podcast is, you know, the number of Google searches has gone down in the past year because people are turning to AI, they're finding more direct results, they're having more conversational approaches to finding what they need. And that was mind blowing to me as you and I coming into both of our professions in the Google era and now that whole era is now kind of slowly changing into this Sam Altman and Jony. I've gonna run the world over the next 10 years. And so you know, that's, it's in, it's an interesting space, but it's like to think that it's gonna go away or to think that it's not gonna impact education is just, it's not real.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And the rate of change, I mean even like you were saying, using a specific search engine. So I don't know if you've seen the Harvard Business Review release of like the top 100 uses of AI in the last two years, but considering that I would say AI really started in even though it was November of 22. Generative AI, let's say 23. So this is, we're in the third year of it and interesting to see like you know, generating ideas was the number one use. I mean brainstorming ideas, that's. That was in 24, that's on number six on the list. The top three to spoil the whole thing. But if you look it up, the top three uses of AI in 2025 all have to do with personal and professional growth. The first one is therapy and companionship is number one. Which some people I say that to and they're like, that's scary. And then some people, I'm like, or is it an option because you don't have the money to afford a therapist and it's a stepping stone toward it. It's not a replacement for therapy because you can't replace the human with that. The second one is organizing your life and the third one is finding purpose. So those are the top three uses of AI right now across the world.
Again, that's going to trickle down to us. And the number four use by the way, enhanced learning, which hey that's, I mean last I checked we should have that in our schools too. Yeah. I also like that fun and nonsense is number six and seven on the last two years. Because I'm all about the fun and nonsense with AI. Like totally the 50 year old version of myself, a 10 year old version and then making the 10 year old version myself a 50 year old version and then seeing how bad AI gets it. But anyway, all that, all that to say, I mean it's multifaceted and like you said, the search engine part of it is part. But there's all these other components and you know if we're just teaching them, use it to generate ideas, that's great, that's a big use. But there's. I know hundreds of other ways to use it.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah, no, and you're spot on. And I mean, it kind of connects to. I talked with Jane Singleton last week, who deals with a lot of works with neurodiverse learners, and she was saying kind of similar to this idea of like, hey, you're about to go into a really challenging conversation with a parent at a school, you know, maybe use AI to, you know, preview that conversation. Not that AI is going to give you the exact all, all, end, all, be all answer, but it's going to give you some comfort in the sense of, oh, okay, maybe I should say that. Maybe I shouldn't say this part, but I'll say this part or I'll say it this way. And I think that's where we are. I think that's. And this technology is only going to get better. It's not replacing teachers, it's not replacing people. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's like this is where.
It's this balance between human and machine. And that's where I think we're really going to be for the next several years as this technology grows and evolves, and hopefully it can stay as pure as it is.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: Well, maybe we learn from social media. I mean, that's my hope is that we learn from social media. Remember the promise. I mean, that's how we connected. And it was 20, you know, 2007, we're writing our blogs. In 2009, we're on Twitter.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: And.
[00:41:59] Speaker A: And then it just, you know, 20, 15, 16. I don't know, maybe there was a big election or something, but at some point, I mean, it just went downhill and it became what it's become. So my hope is that AI does not become the. What's happened to social media? Because there's still a lot of promise to social media, too, But. And again, guess what? Who's a common denominator in all this? It's not that. I mean, there's technology, but it's the humans, right? We're the ones that are screwing this thing up with the deep now or the silly videos and burning, you know, thousands of trees because we want to make silly videos over and over again. And, you know, there's a lot of. A lot of talk around the energy consumption, around AI too, which, you know, is going to get better over time. But I think right now it's. It's a concern.
[00:42:38] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think it, I think it definitely is. So, Carl, you are going to be at. As we kind of previewed early on, you're going to be at ISTE plus. I wrote this down in my notes because I want to make sure I get this. Don't forget ISTE plus ASCD Live, exclamation point.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: In San Antonio. Can you share just kind of, it's kind of a two parter here. Can you share some like tips for folks who are maybe going to their first ISTE or folks who are going to Iste and you know, just see everything and it's just like always overwhelmed and then where can we see you and where can folks connect with you during this time in San Antonio?
[00:43:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I actually am. It's funny you mentioned that because this week I started writing. I just realized I started writing a blog that I never posted. Do you ever do that where you're like, I have this great blog and I start writing it and then 15 other things popped up and I got distracted with TikTok. No, no. But I started writing a blog. So I'm trying to find it real quick. But essentially it was my tips for just exactly what you're talking about. It's kind of a preview, but I always, I break it down into different components and so I'll just do this whether you're new or you've done before. I think for me, I kind of break it down into four parts. The first part I say is in is well, so I tied it to Texas too. So I say breakfast, tacos and breakout sessions. Right. So the first thing you do is you're looking at those sessions. What I try to do is because there are, you know, hundreds, it seems like every hour. There's not, but it seems like it. I try to take a, I take AM and PM chunks and I'll do like, okay, let me find maybe one or two sessions in the a.m. and one or two sessions in the p.m. that I want to go to. And if that's it, that's great. If I learn one or two things from those, it's a successful day, right? If you try to go to everything, you're going to be running around and you also need time to decompress after those sessions, which we don't do a lot of.
My second, my second, my second tip is enjoy the side dishes, but also enjoy the side conversation. So you know, when you're talking to someone in the hallway, don't feel like the, oh, I've got to go catch 50 AI tools in 50 minutes. No, I'm going to run. I'm going to have a. I'm going to continue my conversation with this person I just ran into or someone I'm connecting with or a colleague. I think those are so important too.
And then the last couple I say is like, stay. I say come for the steak and stay for the sizzle.
The vendor hall is the sizzle, you know, and it goes from aisle 100 to 3782 or whatever it is. And it could be overwhelming. But again, even having a plan in there, like, look, there are some great nuggets. There's folks, I'm one of them. I'm presenting in the vendor hall a couple times. So you can find amazing presentations that are shorter.
Yep. I, I think if you have a crew with you, that's always good because I feel like there's strength in numbers when, if you feel like you're getting overwhelmed with vendors trying to get you, you know, free pens or whatever.
And then my last bit of advice is don't skip the dessert, which is the evening hour, the evening stuff. And I feel like is. He can be split into two parts. It's day SD +ACD live estimation point, and then night ISD + ASCD live exclamation point. And that is like all the after hours. The breakfast is in the morning and the after hours things. Like I'm doing a pickleball event with Magic School and Adobe on Sunday and then I'm doing a poetry slam with Adam and brisk teaching on Monday. So like, to me, that's, it's going to keep me busy. Like I'm hosting those things. But it, like I, And I'll, I'll just find one or two. Like, that's another one. Don't hop to. You could try to get to like 14 of them. But I mean, it's, It's. You're going to be so worn out and your brain, it's a muscle. You have to recover it. So, yeah, that's all the stuff I'm doing. I'm doing a couple sessions too, like in the main hall and then a couple, like I said, in the exhibit hall. But yeah, it's. Yeah. Break it down into smaller chunks. That's a big part.
[00:46:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. And having attended ISTE for several years, that's. I agree. That is. Have a plan going in. I mean, most of us are just wrapping up our, our school years and we're, we're getting, getting past that point. And then we're jumping into iste, which is like this amazing experience, and there's so much going on, but you have to really, like you said, chunk it out, plan it out, and, and go in with that plan and stick to it. Because if you try and do everything, if you try and be everywhere for everyone, you are going to run yourself ragged and you're going to wake up on the Fourth of July. Like, you know, like a, like a.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: It goes right up to the Fourth of July, too. I mean, that's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So make a plan, stick with it, and be flexible with it, too. So, like, if that's why I say the AMPM chunks, because, like, man, I'm having this great chat with somebody. I'm about to miss this one session. But if I continue, maybe I'll just go to lunch early, you know, see, move some things around. But, yeah, I'm with you. And then again, I mentioned it quickly, but reflect. I mean, too often it's not. Maybe at the end you have a chance, but try to do it every day. I try to make every day a point of five minutes of internal reflection. Write it down or put it in your brain and just say, oh, I learned this and this today, or a couple things I want to follow up. And I put it in my little notes on my phone because the phone isn't always bad, right? So.
[00:47:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. It's, it's, it's kind of like that Sherry Turkle think of, like, being alone together and taking some, taking some time to be with yourself during is the, you know, reflect, get it down, jot it down, and then, you know, have fun. Have fun, because it's a fun event and there's so much going on. So. All right, well, Carl, we have one final question that we ask every guest on the show. What strategy do you use to step away from the digital world?
[00:47:39] Speaker A: I mean, one of my favorite pastimes is playing poker. Now, I do play poker online, but that's digital, so I'll skip. I'll leave that part out. But one of the things now that we're up past Covid is starting hosting poker games again. And just poker nights at my house. And it's not because. It's not just because it's fun and we get to razz each other, but it's very much a social game. We don't, we don't play. I mean, we throw in some money in there and it's fun. But for me, it's like getting together again with family and Friends creating experiences in my time at EENS before this, I love to create. There's an event called iPad Palooza that I ran for several years and then Learn Fest. And for me, I really miss the idea of hosting experiences. So I'm always trying to figure out ways to interact with the community. I'm actually planning right now what we're calling a dive in movie night because our, we have our community pool, but it closes at nine. So I'm trying to, I'm on the HOA board, so I'm trying to get us like let's leave it open and let's have an adults only dive in movie theater. We'll watch, you know, Jaws or Fast Times or something and in floaties and just again, my thing is like getting connected with people again in the physical realm is how I kind of center myself when I feel like I'm too sucked into the digital realm.
[00:48:41] Speaker B: I love that. I love that. And yes, there's so much that we're still just getting back from that post pandemic time where we're just being together again and doing things in person. And I think paying. Playing poker is such a great example because it's such a in person, engaging thing and the bodies in the room and the personalities in the room, it's such a, it's such a fun experience. So.
[00:49:00] Speaker A: And I teach my kids how to play it too. They get to bring their friends the next day they, they bring their friends. They all got to throw in five bucks. It's real. I say I'm, I'm not going to play with you, but I will. I will teach you how to play and learn the skill set of math and social, social problem solving. Looking at physical ticks. I mean, there's so many neat things that come out of it. And so I'll host like a poker bootcamp every summer, which is unofficial. Although I do think would be fun to do is like say the boot camp's 20 bucks, but I get to play and if I win, I keep all the money. No, that's kind of evil.
[00:49:27] Speaker B: I love that. I have a feeling, I have a feeling your ninth book is going to be about like life skill. Teaching poker skills for life. You know, basically, I'm all in. You're right. Yeah, there's, there's so much you can learn from that game. It's a very simple game, but there's so much you can learn about people and the human condition. It's. It's fascinating. So I look, I look forward to that book, Carl. Thank you all right, buddy? Well, this has been. You know, anybody who's been listening to this podcast, all seven of you this season? It's my.
[00:49:56] Speaker A: My mom.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: My first. My mom.
All the. All the moms out there listening to this podcast and asking me every week how I find it. You know, I just want to thank everyone for listening, for tuning in.
There will be a second season. I'm hoping to launch in August, but I want to really thank all my guests this past season, but I really want to especially thank Carl. This has been a fun conversation.
This is why I do this. I know this. I think this is why you guys do this.
We love to connect, we love to engage, and we love to just talk. And I'm sure we could go on for two or three more hours about, you know, all the work that we've done in education, but all the work that's still out there and needs to be done. So thank you again for sharing your wisdom and your ideas today.
[00:50:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. My challenge for you is at some point, one of these episodes and one of the upcoming seasons will be live from Lincoln Financial Field.
Let's do it. Let's make it happen.
[00:50:54] Speaker B: All right. All right. We're going to make that happen. All right. Season two, season two, and season ten for you guys is going to be the.
It's going to be all. It's going to be crazy. All right, we got a banner to raise. All right, my friend. Well, you take care and enjoy SD and make sure if you're going to sd, check out Carl. Make sure you check out his book then gauged, which should be out relatively soon. You know, have a great summer, educators. Take some time to reflect and take some time to, you know, enjoy and just be in nature and be with yourself and disconnect, and we will see you next season.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: Go birds.
[00:51:28] Speaker B: Go birds.
